What is the recovery time for a profile? | AskTOP.net – Leader Development for Army Professionals

What is the recovery time for a profile?

I am on a profile. How long do I have to recover before I have to take the APFT?

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Army Directive 2016-07 did away with a recovery period of twice the length of the profile.  Therefore it is possible to receive an APFT after you complete the profile period.

Army Directive 2016-07 states:

(3) Soldiers will no longer have an automatic recovery period after the
termination of their temporary profiles. Additionally, temporary profiles will no longer include the military physical profile serial system (PULHES) characterization. Temporary profiles with MRC and DL characterizations will be for duration only. When renewing a temporary profile, profiling officers will update the functional activities the Soldier can perform. An appropriate physician will review temporary profiles lasting 180 days or longer.

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Mark is a Retired Command Sergeant Major with 26 years of military leadership experience. He held 3 military occupational specialties (Field Artillery, Nuclear Weapons Tech, and Ammunition Ordnance). Mark is one of the leading military authors in the fields of leadership, counseling, and training.

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  • sandra

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    I had just come off of a two month profile and my unit required me to do a diagnostic pt test. They then gave me a negative counseling statement when I failed. It had been less than thirty days since my profile had ended but they said that regulations stated that I had to do the test and get counseled for it. Is this correct?

    • Mark Gerecht

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      Sandra,
      There is nothing wrong with the chain of command directing a diagnostic PT test. They can use this to help you gauge where you are at in terms of getting ready for the record test. You must receive twice the length of your profile not to exceed 90 days before taking a for RECORD APFT. There is nothing in AR 350-1 or FM 7-22 that states you must take a diagnostic APFT. These test are used to gauge levels of performance and can be conducted at any time. The counseling statement is more than likely just a method to formally notify you of your current level of performance, warn you that failing an APFT could result in separation, and should provide a plan to bring you up to standard. Leaders should be careful when conducting a diagnostic APFT after profile to ensure that the event does not reinjure or cause additional injury to the Soldier. Usually this is done by informing the Soldier to do they best they can without injuring themselves. Again keep in mind the purpose of the diagnostic is just to give a snapshot of where you are and how far you need to go to meet the standard. If your profile was for 60 days you cannot be required to take a FOR RECORD APFT until day 91 because you have are allowed 90 days for the recovery.

      Hope this Helps!
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      • Anonymous

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        A negative counseling statement is still negative regardless. According to fm21-20 section 6-6 a soldier will have double their recovery time not to exceed 90 days after recovery before administering an apft. Period. There is nothing wrong with asking a soldier to take one but there is something wrong with recording it and then putting a negative counseling statement in their record for failure. You are more than likely wrong about the issuing of a counseling statement. It was the same negative counseling that other soldiers not on recovery received. You produced no regulation to prove your point and that was all I was asking for. This was not at all helpful.

      • Mark Gerecht

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        Sandra,
        I am sorry you did not find my response helpful. We take what we do at ASKTOP.net seriously and always strive to answer the question from a factual and professional manner. We enjoy sharing lessons learned and experience. Much of which is time tested some of which cannot be found in a regulation but is part of everyday military life and is legally binding.

        I can see this is an emotional issue for you. Let’s look at the facts of the matter rather than the emotions.
        The question– It had been less than thirty days since my profile had ended but they said that regulations stated that I had to do the test and get counseled for it. Is this correct?

        My response to this questions was– There is nothing in AR 350-1 or FM 7-22 that states you must take a diagnostic APFT (not sure why FM 21-20 this FM no longer exist).

        Let’s Expand the Answer for Clarification Purposes
        So in the vernacular the answer to your question is “No”. There is no regulation or FM that states you must take a diagnostic APFT. There is no regulation that specifically states you must be counseled for failing a diagnostic APFT. But for clarification and in accordance with FM 7-22 G-9m(2) Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record. So the unit can give you a diagnostic everyday of the week, once a week, once a month if they desire. They can also give you a FOR RECORD APFT (after your 90th day of recovery)in the same manner as previously described. FM 7-22 and AR 350-1 (which are the governing doctrine for APFT) make no reference to a diagnostic APFT.

        Keep in mind the question was asked in the Negative. You it is very difficult to prove a negative question with specific reference. Example: Prove I have not read AR 350-1? It is very difficult as I may have read it but can’t satisfy your requirement, which give the perception I did not read the regulation. Now let’s look at from a military perspective. Is there a specific regulation that say you will be counseled for: being late to work, showing up to work with a dirty uniform, failing to do PMCS on your equipment, etc? No there is not. These types of violations along with APFT are common sense issues in which the commander and chain of command are given broad authority as to how they proceed to include counseling. This is done for a specific reason. It provides leaders the latitude to deal with an issue as they see appropriate. In the situation as you described I believe it is absolutely appropriate that a Soldier be counseled for failing a diagnostic and/or FOR RECORD APFT.

        Counseling
        Concerning the counseling aspect of your question. There is absolutely no regulation that specifically states you will be counseled for failing a diagnostic APFT. The counseling requirement can be found in AR 635-200. This is the separation regulation. Paragraph 1–15. Guidance b. Adequate counseling and rehabilitation measures will be taken before initiating separation action against a Soldier when the reason for separation so specifies. An alleged or established inadequacy in previous rehabilitation efforts does not provide a legal bar to separation. So failure to pass a FOR RECORD APFT would most likely result in a Chapter 13 “Unsatisfactory Performance”. Therefore the chain of command needs to be able to show they attempted to rehab the Soldier. The counseling statement therefore can help you if they failed to take the appropriate steps.

        Let’s Look at the Issue from the Chain of Command’s Perspective
        Your Chain of Command has a responsibility to ensure you are able to meet the standard. Requiring you to take a diagnostic APFT and recording the results of the test including a counseling for failing the diagnostic APFT is absolutely appropriate and there is nothing wrong with it. The purpose is to notify you of your current level of performance and inform you of the consequences for failing 2 consecutive FOR RECORD APFTs.

        Based on the tone of your response it appears to me the counseling is what really disturbed or frustrated you. Bottom Line no one likes bad news. No one enjoys being told they did not meet the standard. In a case dealing with a profile and depending on the injury I would expect a Soldier to potentially struggle on a diagnostic test and I would also encourage them to stop if they felt the test was too much at this time. Again the key is to gauge where you are at and for your own good and to assist you in developing a plan to get better so you can perform to standard during a FOR RECORD APFT.

        YOUR RESPONSE TO COUNSELING
        While you cannot control how an individual interacts or approaches you…you can control your response. The counseling form provides you the ability to disagree with the counseling and state why. In your case a professional response might have looked something like: While I appreciate the opportunity to gauge my current level of recovery with a diagnostic APFT I believe my failure was a direct result of being on profile and trying not to re-injure myself. I will continue to work to improve my performance so that I can pass a FOR RECORD APFT. I respectfully request that I be given an appointment with the unit master fitness NCO so that he/she may assist me in developing an improvement program to ensure I pass my FOR RECORD APFT. I specifically ask that any program developed take into account my injury and is designed to help ensure I do not re-injure myself there by exacerbating my condition and inability to take a FOR RECORD APFT.

        This response says it all in a professional manner and puts the counselor on notice that you need support. The counselor should also have placed their responsibilities under leaders responsibilities. If you like you can always type up a memorandum for record and ask the NCO or training NCO to attach the response to your counseling statement and simply enter see attached MFR dated xxxx on the session closing block of the counseling statement. Never give up the opportunity to tell your side of the story on a counseling statement. By writing nothing you are telling the commander you have nothing to add. Putting your comments down gives you the ability to tell your side of the story so the commander and 1SG know your thoughts as well as the thoughts of the counselor.

        In Summary
        Emails, counseling, and blog posts can be read in many different attitudes and tones. Therefore it is important that you remove your emotions from your communication method. When the first thing that comes across are your emotions it is very difficult for the other party to provide you an acceptable response as they cannot satisfy your emotional need. If you want to be effective and succeed disarm the other party by using facts. Be calm, professional, and factual…it works every time especially with senior leaders. Last but not least, if you believe this counseling was inappropriate or you were treated incorrectly then you should address that aspect from a factual perspective. You stated you were basically given the same counseling statement everyone else got that failed the diagnostic APFT. I can look at that from several different perspectives: 1. The counselor was lazy. 2. The counselor was inexperienced 3. The counselor was tired. I have no idea what the counselors motive is or was as I was not there. However, based on your explanation I see absolutely nothing wrong with the situation you described except for the comment you wrote that stated: they said that regulations stated that I had to do the test and get counseled for it. Again there is nothing in the regulation that says you have to do a diagnostic other than what I shared with you that the commander can direct a test (diagnostic or FOR RECORD) at anytime. There is no regulation that specifically states you will be counseled for failing a diagnostic APFT but you should be counseled for substandard performance. A diagnostic APFT qualifies as substandard performance as the standard was not met. Now the counselor might have shown a little more compassion and/or empathy for you but a counseling statement is still appropriate.

        Hopefully this response has answered the voids in my initial response.

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  • Eck

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    From my experience, yes. The recovery period may be waived at the request of the Soldier if the PA and Commander agree. However, the PA and Commander assume the risk if the Soldier is injured during a record APFT conducted during the recovery period. I have seen this occur for Soldiers who needed a APFT for an upcoming school seat or promotion board.

  • Victor J

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    Can a PA, and a Commander forfeit the right of a recovery period for a soldier that was on a two week no run profile? If the soldier asks to forfeit his right of a recovery time!

    • Anonymous

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      Yes, a Soldier may waive the recovery period, IF the servicing medical officer (Dr/PA) and the commander agree.

  • Kinesha Shelton

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    I just got off 6 month profile in January am I required to take APFT in April?

    • Mark Gerecht

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      You have twice the length of your profile not to exceed 90 days. See AR 350-1 paragraph 1-24 and FM 7-22.
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  • christa

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    I had hip surgery last month and was given a 30 day profile that ends ends in a few days. My unit wants to do unit pt during drill. Now that I’m in the recovery period can I still be courses to do formation pt?

    • Mark Gerecht

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      Christa,
      You are eligible to do PT with your unit as you are in the recovery phase. Now give that the risk of injury could be potentially high most units will ask that you participate to the best of your ability without risking injury. Then they will expect you to be fully up to speed after twice the length of your profile. At which time you are required to take a APFT Test if one is due. Here are some paragraphs from FM 7-22 that might assist you.

      PREVENTION
      6-11. The reconditioning program described in this FM responds to the DoD Injury Work Group recommendation to “…implement programs designed to enhance fitness and reduce training injury rates.” By
      enhancing the fitness level of Soldiers during the profile and post-profile recovery period, this program is expected to reduce training injury rates. The Army Physical Readiness Training System, shown in Figure 6-1, was developed with Soldier performance and injury control as its two primary objectives. Though these objectives may seem to oppose one another at first glance, the principles of PRT that improve Soldier performance also contribute to reducing injury risk. The DoD Injury Work Group recommends the following measures for injury prevention:

      A-41. Soldiers with temporary physical profiles must take a regular three event APFT after the profile has expired. Soldiers with temporary profiles of long duration (more than three months) may take an alternate aerobic event as determined by the commander with input from health-care personnel. Once the profile has been lifted, the Soldier must be given twice the length of the profile (not to exceed 90 days) to train for the regular three event APFT. If a regularly scheduled APFT occurs during the profile period, the Soldier should be given a mandatory make-up date for the APFT.

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  • SSG H

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    This is tricky and I’m pretty sure I’m fighting a losing battle. However I just PCS’d to a new post, and had a record APFT scheduled for 1300. Knowing this my section SGT had me do pt that morning anyways where I injured my knee. I ask several times to be seen by a medic before proceeding with a pt test that afternoon as I knew the outcome would be bad since I was unable to run due to this injury. of course I failed the run and then was finally allowed afterwards to see a medic the next day, and of course I was put o profile and sent to have x-rays and am starting physical therapy. I was flagged of course, but to me this doesn’t seem like the right answer. My section leader knowing I was injured earlier that morning should have sent me to be seen by a medic rather than taking a pt test injured (which again.. I was ordered to take even with a jacked up knee). And yes I did finish the pt test even though injured, as an NCO quitting doesn’t seem like the right answer either… especially not in front of the men. I’m just looking for some advice on how to handle this, if its even legal, and basically where do I stand on this, is it even worth fighting or is it something I just need to suck up take the flag, pass a pt test when my recovery time is up and forget about?

    • Mark Gerecht

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      SSG H,
      By the regulation you are correct in that the APFT counts, as long as it was designated as a record test before hand. Now based on what you have stated in your post there may be some room to move. If you can prove to your chain of command that you were forced to conduct PT, were injured, told your leader, were refused medical treatment, etc. I would say you stand a good chance of having the APFT revoked and moved to a diagnostic status. This is not normal procedure but certainly within the command authority of your commander to grant an exception for a Soldier who should not have been required to take a test under those conditions.

      Bottomline is if this happened they way you state you should probably bring it to the attention of your 1SG/CDR jointly on open door policy. To make a Soldier do PT prior to conducting an APFT in my experience is unreasonable. Certainly the leader would not want to be treated this way if he was being tested. In units I served with the person responsible for the test would always ask “Is there anyone here that should not test based on Injury, Illness, or other condition? Is so fall out to (specified location) and see the (usually 1SG). A determination was usually then made as whether the Soldier should test. However this is not a requirement, just what I consider common sense.

      If you choose to speak with your 1SG/CDR on open door policy make sure that you are factual, unemotional, calm, and professional. Bring them a possible solution. You might want to consider showing past PT Tests. If you have always passed your APFT with goods scores this should help prove your case. You might consider a solution something like. Please move this to a diagnostic test, let me recover from this injury and I will pass the test. Then go on to explain why you believe the test was unfair or the treatment unfair or inappropriate.

      Another option you might want to consider is bringing to the attention of the chain of command potential abuse of your leader in that you stated you were injured and were denied care. Only go this route if you can prove this either through the leader admitting it or you having witnesses stating they heard you make your request and are willing to make sworn statements.

      Only you can decide what action is appropriate. I believe all leaders care and if you present your case in a professional way I believe your 1SG/CDR will hear you out and make an proper decision. If you choose to protest this issue make sure you have your facts straight and your are absolutely professional.

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      • SSG H

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        Mark Gerecht

        ok, sounds good. I kinda figured the flag was legit, just not the process of events that led to me getting it. Hopefully the 1SG/CDR will be willing to cut me some slack since I do have 6 witnesses, and I’ve only been here 2 weeks now. Thanks for the help

  • gi wife

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    My husband was flagged while in profile. I was wondering if you could tell me what regulation states that he can not be flagged during a profile or recovery time? Also if he is pcs’d during his recovery time, does he still get the recovery time?

    • Mark Gerecht

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      GI Wife,
      I am having difficulty understanding your question because Soldiers are not flagged because of a medical profile. Based on my review of AR 600-8-2, Soldiers are not flagged for medical reasons. If a Soldier has a profile they are exempt from taking the APFT test during the profile and recovery period. It has nothing to do with a flag at all. The only way I could see he could be flagged based on the information you provide would be if he has:

      1. Failed to take his APFT as required and the test is now out of date. He would be flagged for failing to take the test as required. The flag would remain in place until he recovers from his profile and takes/passes the test.
      2. If he was taking the APFT and was injured in the test or failed to complete the test. This would result in a flag action. Again the flag would be lifted when he takes and successfully passes the APFT test.

      Hope this helps.
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      Again the profile has nothing to do with a flag action.

    • SGT NICK

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      I think he was ht/wt flagged, he can be flagged under this even if he has a medical condition that would warrant a med board. These chapters are honorable anyway.

      • Mark Gerecht

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        GI Wife,
        SGT Nick is correct, it is possible to be flagged if your spouse does not meet the height and weight requirement, but this is not the same thing as a medical profile. He could have a medical profile that identifies a medical issue as a contributing factor to an overweight condition but this would not be the same thing as a medical profile and recovery time.

        Perhaps I am just confused. If we have not addressed your question to your satisfaction please give us more details and we will see if we can nail down an answer for you with a reference to a regulation.

        By the way thanks for all you do as a Spouse…Definitely Hardest Job in the Army in my Book! Spouses definitely sacrifice a lot so our Soldiers can do their job!

        Best Wishes
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  • SPC. Lopez

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    Where in the regulations that it states you can waver the recovery time to conduct an apft for record. I’ve read numerous postings that it can be done with the Commander completing a 4856. But where is this supported so that I can provide this information to my supervisor? I am currently in my recovery time from a 14 day temp profile and I was selected to go to WLC, however I was informed that I might not be eligible to go because I am currently in my recovery phase.

    • Mark Gerecht

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      SPC Lopex,

      There is no wavier for recovery time to my knowledge. The only time to my knowledge that there can be a wavier is when a Soldier fails the APFT and desires to retest in less than 90 days. A test under 90 days can be completed if both the Soldier and Commander agree the Soldier is well prepared.

      EXTRACT OF AR 350-1 paragraph 1-24e(5) states:
      Soldiers who fail a record APFT for the first time or fail to take a record APFT within the required period will
      be flagged in accordance with AR 600–8–2. In the event of a record test failure, commanders may allow Soldiers to
      retake the test as soon as the Soldier and the commander feel the Soldier is ready. Soldiers without a medical profile
      will be retested no later than 90 days following the initial APFT failure. Reserve component Soldiers not on active duty
      and without a medical profile will be tested no later than 180 days following the initial APFT failure.

      A 14 day profile requires 28 days of recovery. See FM 7-22 for details. The only options I see are:

      1. Is if the Commander agrees to allow you to test. The problem is if you fail the APFT you technically cannot be flagged because you are not medically cleared. This will have to be a decision made by the chain of command.

      2. Another option would be to ask medical authority to provide you a waiver from the recovery period and potentially provide you with a sick slip stating you are fully recovered and capable of testing. This would allow your commander to technically test.

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