Can my squad leader give me a backdated counseling statement
No, your squad leader cannot do this. An incorrect date on a counseling form could be considered a false official statement or possibly an act of fraud. This may be an innocent mistake made by an inexperienced leader or the act of a leader who lacks integrity. Either way, this counseling statement will have your name and signature on it. You want to make sure it is correct.
Your options:
- Although I do not recommend it, you could refuse to sign the counseling statement. See Should I refuse to sign counseling statements I don’t agree with?
- Tell your squad leader that you are uncomfortable signing the DA 4856 because of the inappropriate date and request that he change the date.
- Simply line through the date and insert the correct date (the actual date of the counseling). Place your initials beside your correction.
Comments
Brandon
Iv received a few counselings from my squad leader who is also a SPC like me(irrelevant to the question) but none of them have been followed up with me in the assessment block after any amount of time. Can those be used in a legal packet against me since none of them have been completed in a sense?
LAD
Counseling Statement without assessment is incomplete work. Your high-speed SPC *Squad Leader needs to provide proof of pattern of misconduct or your failure to correct a substandard performance in accordance with your agreed plan of actions.
Legally, I don’t think it’s admissible. You can call legal office and find out for sure.
SGT NICK
For UCMJ yes, for chapter proceedings no, at any time he could complete the assessment by stating that the plan of action was completed successfully, or that the service member is making progress, or something usually positive. The correct way to do an assessment is to state in the Plan of Action when an assessment will be addressed. Please review FM 6-22 for reference.
Jessica O
What is usually considered “a timely fashion?” My husband is near retirement and is being accused of being disrespectful towards the USO in SC. There was a col. that saw the conversation and is willing to go to bat for him. However, his command is taking the side of the USO. Since he has turned in his retirement package and is waiting for it to be signed off, how can this situation affect him? He has been counselled already by the NCOIC but it hasn’t gone any further. The recommendation is UMJC.
Thanks for your help.
SGT NICK
If he was in uniform he can definitely be punished under Article 134 of the UCMJ, according to Rod Powers:
“Conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces (clause 2). “Discredit” means to injure the reputation of. This clause of Article 134 makes punishable conduct which has a tendency to bring the service into disrepute or which tends to lower it in public esteem.”
The rank of your husband is also important because a SSG would have a lot more to lose here than a SFC or MSG. Depending on which grade the Article 15 is can also be a factor in how long he would have to stay in past his original retirement date. If he appeals or demands a trial by court martial that would significantly extend his enlistment.
Keep in mind one thing about perceptions and exactly who heard what and the context it was in. The conversation was either disrespectful, inappropriate, or insensitive for the USO or another higher ranking person to report it to your husband’s chain of command. I wish you best of luck in your husband’s case, retirements are worth fighting to the death for so don’t take a severe punishment laying down.
Eck
Hi Jessica,
The statute of limitations for UCMJ actions is two years. Since your husband has only submitted his retire packet and it is not approved, his unit will more than likely hold off on processing the packet while any UCMJ actions are ongoing. I would strongly suggest your husband contact the witness he has from the USO and get a statement and have the contact information. If his command moves forward with UCMJ action, he has the legal right to speak with a trial defense attorney. He should not waive that right. The word of a colonel will go a long way for character witness purposes in any legal proceedings.
If your husband has an approved retirement date, then he can not be held past that date for UCMJ actions. If the command has an intent on moving forward with court-martial charges, then he could be held past his approved retirement date upon the approval of the first general officer in his chain of command.
I hope you found this helpful.
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and any views presented are my own and are not to be interpreted as legal advice. Furthermore, my views do not necessarily represent the views of DoD or its Components.
Charles
I was wondering if there was anything in black and white that shows you can’t backdate a counseling statement. I personally am dealing with an issue where my 1st line handed me a stack of event oriented counselings, all backdated and asked me to sign them. I did sign them, simply because I was guilty of the infractions, but i dated them for the day i signed them, as did my first line. these counselings were then used to push a field grade art 15 against me. i’ve since been informed that because the counselings were backdated (also with no plan of action or followups), that they won’t hold up to any scrutiny by trial defense. if i could get this in black and white, it may lessen the blow i’m about to receive. mind you, i’m not trying to escape punishment, just trying to steer it in a direction so that my family doesn’t take a financial hit because of my actions.
Mark Gerecht
Back dating: There is nothing in black and white. FM 6.22 Appendix B, para B-5 simply states: Successful counseling for specific performance occurs as close to the event as possible.
No plan of action: Depending on the infractions if there was no plan of action this could work in your favor. There would be some cases in which the lack of a plan of action while unprofessional and not in keeping with policy and doctrine might not be as significant. For example: If you were disrespectful and the plan of action was to recommend you for an article 15 the leadership may overlook this issue. It will simply depend on the specifics of the issue but technically this block is supposed to be filled out to correct and educate the Soldier, as well as outline the resolution. It will most likely depend on the seriousness of the event and how your chain of command and JAG interpret FM 6.22.
No Assessment: This is another issue all together. If you have a good JAG they will refer to FM 6.22 Appendix B, Figure B-11 which states: during an event oriented counseling session the counseling is not complete until this block is filled out. If it is not complete and was turned into JAG without an assessment then JAG technically cannot act on an incomplete form. At least this is my opinion based on my professional experience.
Last but not least I also encourage leaders to let things go that happened in the past unless they were really serious. The reason for this is when you start backdating counseling statements it can look like a leader is out to get a Soldier and then you invite scrutiny you do not need. My preferred method is to let the past rest. Sit the Soldier down and provide a professional development session that discusses what happened in the past and then explain that further substandard condcut will not be tolerated. Typically a substandard performer will continue to be substandard. Simply document the new behavior and recommend your plan of action to the chain of command for action if it involves UCMJ and/or revocation of privileges.
Your acknowledgment of responsibility shows a sense of maturity on your part. You are wise to research your courses of action. Approaching the issue in a humble, professional, factual, and unemotional manner will most likely result in the best possible outcome. Typically if you can approach the issue from a point of empathy (getting the leaders to place themselves in your position) you stand a good chance of them gaining some understanding of the issue from your perspective. Ultimately your commander will have to make the call on what is fair and you will have to decide what action you choose to take: refuse the Article 15, accept it, appeal it. If you plan to stay in the Army understand we are in a significant draw-down and UCMJ action may be used to separate you from service. Your command has other administrative measures available to them as well including: bar to reenlistment, letters of reprimand, revocation of privileges just to name a few. If you have serious concerns consider contacting a local attorney that has previous JAG experience for a consult. This will typically cost between $50-$150 but the money is well worth it in my opinion so you have a disinterested perspective of the issue and fully understand your position and options. If you cannot find a local attorney contact us via email and we will attempt to connect you with attorneys we have recommended in the past.
It is important that you recognize that your leaders are not responsible for your actions. They are responsible for correcting your substandard performance and maintaining the good order and discipline of the unit. At times during Article 15 proceedings Soldier might make statements like: but what about my family, please think of my family, I cant afford to be busted, we don’t have the money to live if you take my pay or rank, etc. Unfortunately the true source of the issues is the Soldier failed to think about his family before he participated in substandard performance. It is a difficult reach to then ask the command to think of the Soldier’s family when the Soldier showed total disregard for his family in the first place. No real leader takes joy in reducing or hurting a Soldier but they must at times make hard choices based on the specifics of the situation.
If you do your homework and approach this issue from a humble, professional, factual, and unemotional perspective you may stand a good chance of getting a second chance and avoiding an Article 15. I am not trying to give you false hope but based on the information you provided and the specifics of the incidents you may stand a chance. If they decide to provide you a second chance and let you off with a simple slap on the hand be thankful and make sure you stay out of trouble. Do your best to be a model Soldier.
Leaders usually do their best to do what’s right, we enjoy seeing substandard performers become productive Soldiers. Use this as a life lesson whether you stay in the military or not and apply what you learned in this event to how you handle disciplinary issues in the future.
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SGT NICK
I’m almost shocked at how many soldiers claim this happens to them. As leaders pushing monthly counseling on junior soldiers is the job of the platoon sergeant. They should ensure that squad leaders are putting corrective training on paper and demand that they turn in a copy to them for approval. The 1SG should be spot checking a few soldiers counselings every weekend at close out.
SGT NICK
It is not legal and shows poor judgement on your squad/first line supervisors ability to lead. The counseling itself can cover a longer period than thirty days if for some reason it was not possible to counsel the soldier monthly. Maybe you are a small outlaying FOB with limited computer use/printing capabilities? Otherwise I would just do the counseling and tell the soldiers they did outstanding jobs up till February so their won’t be any flap. Of course you can refuse and face the consequences of not being a team player.
sgt
I was wondering how can you get an award from a situation in combat for another nco patching me up. when i was hit by incoming. I had a reserve unit who didnt keep records of anything but my Team Leader SFC did.
Mackie
Can you please clarify your question? I am not sure if I am undertsanding it well.
Sgt Faulkner
Thank you
Mark Gerecht
My recommendation would be to prepare a memorandum for record that states something like: On {INSERT DATE} I was assigned a the __{INSER TITLE}. I conducted a review of Soldier counseling files and found no counsleing statements for the month(s)of: ___{INSERT MONTHS OF MISSING COUNSELING}. I have I will ensure Soldiers counseled IAW Unit SOP and military regulation.
Then simply place a copy of this Memo in each file.
I do not understand the directions you have received to counsel Soldiers when you were not their leader as it would not make any sense to anyone conducting a review of the counseling packet. If they insist you could prepare a monthly DA Form 4856, Title Monthly Counseling and in the Keys Points of discusison Simply write. Counseling not conducted by preivious leader. Sign and date the counseling form with the current date.
If you do complete a DA FORM 4856 and have Soldiers sign it you are basically falsifying a document and this puts you in an ethical delminea. I would encourage you to speak with the leader directing this action. If they continue to insist and reject the two options dicussed I would recommend you seek guidance from the Platoon Leader,1SG or Commander
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Sgt Faulkner
Hello,
I am being told to write back dated monthly counseling’s all the way to August and this is February. I am a team leader and I became in charge of these Soldiers just a few months ago. Can you tell me if this is legal?