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What are the time limitations for the completion of counseling?

What are the time limitations for the completion of counseling?

This Post contains an updated reference for ATP 6-22.1 The Counseling Process.  Please see below

There are specific counselings that have time lines associated with them like initial, monthly, quarterly counseling sessions. But with regard to derogatory counseling sessions there are no time limits associated with when a counseling should be completed.

A good rule of thumb to follow: counseling should be conducted within a reasonable period of time from when the incident occurred. This will vary depending on the situation. If you believe the elapsed time is unreasonable, your chain of command can help you determine if your definition of “unreasonable” is accurate. You can also contact the IG anonymously by phone and ask for a disinterested opinion.

FM 6.22, Paragraph B-5, page B-1 states:

Successful counseling for specific performance occurs as close to the event as possible.

UPDATED REFERENCE FOLLOWS:

ATP 6-22.1 The Counseling Process, Paragraph 1-6 states:

Specific Instances of Superior or Substandard Performance
1-6. Often counseling is tied to specific instances of superior or substandard duty performance. The leader uses the counseling session to convey to the subordinate whether or not the performance met the standard and what the subordinate did right or wrong. Successful counseling for specific performance occurs as close to the event as possible. Leaders should counse l subordinates for exceptional as well as substandard duty performance.

posted on 08/31/2011 under Q&A
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Mark is a Retired Command Sergeant Major with 26 years of military leadership experience. He held 3 military occupational specialties (Field Artillery, Nuclear Weapons Tech, and Ammunition Ordnance). Mark is one of the leading military authors in the fields of leadership, counseling, and training..

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    Comments

  • Kalvin

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    If you are given a new squad leader do previous counseling statements still stay in your packet? I don’t see any information in the FM telling me about a change of squad leader.

    • Mark Gerecht

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      Kalvin,
      If you look at the bottom of the 4856 it states something like destroy upon PCS ETS or when the Soldier leaves the unit unless it is a rehabilitative transfer.
      So Your previous counseling statements would remain in the current file as a change in squad leader does not impact the counseling packet.

      Hope this helps
      TOP

  • Anonymous

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    Can a nco still write you a negative council if he told an e-4 our below that he was writing you a council an talked to that e-4 or below before he wrote it

  • Thom

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    Can I still give a soldier a negative counseling even if I never gave them their initial counseling

  • kayla

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    Can they still give a A15*****

    • Mark Gerecht

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      Article 15’s can be given for any offense that occurred within 24 months.

  • kayla

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    If you got a counseling on something you didnt do and you denied it and put what happen an they still give you a A15 for it

    • Mark Gerecht

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      The chain of command can still proceed with the recommendation for an Article 15. The purpose of the Article 15 hearing is to determine guilt or innocence. If guilty then punishment must be determined. Rarely does a recommendation for an Article 15 result in a Soldier being found not guilty. Therefore you have the option to refuse the Article 15 and even have the right to refuse a Summary Courts Martial. I would strongly recommend you seek counsel form JAG before making either of these decisions.

      Did you find this information useful?
      TOP

    • Mark Gerecht

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      Yes, the chain of command can still recommend an Article 15. If you agree to the Article 15 hearing the commander will determine guilty or not guilty and if you are found guilty then there is punishment. Rarely is an Article 15 thrown out. If you believe you are right you have the option to refuse an Article 15 and even a Summary Courts Martial. However before doing this I would strongly recommend you get counsel from your Local JAG. Punishment from a Special Courts Martial is far more severe.

      If you believe the Article 15 recommendation is wrong and decide to take proceed with the Article 15 hearing I believe you might find the following posts useful:
      How can I convince my Chain of Command to drop an Article 15?
      Soldiers Decisions and Recourse During Article 15s
      Counseling and the Article 15- A Leader’s Responsibilities

      Did you find this information useful?
      TOP

  • anonymous

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    Ok I have a ?. So if I did something wrong in November can they still counsel me?

  • caylin

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    can a promotable status be taken from you just based on hearsay with no hard evidence that an event occurred, I.E completing a competition run of 4 laps that was individually timed? where can i get help with this situation?

    • Mackie

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      Caylin,

      AR 600-8-19 discusses Enlisted Promotions and Reductions and provides the reasons for removal from the promotion standing list.

      Removal from the PSL is not directly dictated by certain events, rather, it is disctated by the action taken for instance, being flagged. If you were flagged, then you will automatically be removed from the PSL. Whether or not your flag was correctly administered is a whole different story which is covered by AR 600-8-2.

  • SSG MARQUIS FOWLER

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    Is there a time limit to give a negative counseling. I cannot find any info.

    • Preston

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      SSG Fowler,
      As Mark wrote above, it all comes down to what your chain of command considers to be “reasonable.” There is no doctrinal standard. Check local policies and/or consult your JAG.

      • Mark Gerecht

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        Note: FM 6-22 states that counseling should be completed as close as possible to the event.

        The farther you get from the event, the more facts fade and the perception that you are out to get someone begins to take shape.

        There could be a reason for delayed written counseling. For example, if a Soldier does something wrong during an FTX the leader could conduct a verbal counseling in the field and then prepare a written counseling once they return to garrison. The 4856 would review the verbal counseling and include information such as Plan of Action and Assessment.

      • Preston

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        Great point, Mark. Thanks for clearing that up.

    • Anonymous

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      72 hrs from the time of the negative act.

      • Mark Gerecht

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        SSG Fowler,
        Could you provide a reference for your response?

        FM 6.22 paragaph B-5, page B-1 states: the counseling should take place as close to the event as possible. FM 6.22 has been superseded by ADP and ADRP 6.22 but Appendix B of FM 6-22 remains in effect until ATTP 6.22 is published which based on my understanding will contain the same information as stated above.

        A commander may implement a local policy requiring counseling to be conducted within 72 hours but if the 72 hour ruling is violated the Soldier could still be counseled. As a side note: AR 27-10 allows for imposing action under Article 15 up to 2 years after the offense. Based on this information it is possible for a Soldier to be counseled well beyond 72 hours after an incident and still receive UCMJ action. The question that should arise within the chain of command is: Is this action fair and just to the Soldier based on the whole situation.

        Thanks for your input!
        TOP

      • Anonymous

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        Where in the reg does it say this? I feel like it’s an unwritten rule and I can’t find it.

      • Mark Gerecht

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        I am assuming you are referring to my comment about a “A GOOD RULE OF THUMB” This is an unwritten rule as the regulation leave the time frame open to interpretation by stating Successful counseling for specific performance occurs as close to the event as possible. . Therefore if you believe the time elapsed is unreasonable or unfair the only way to raise the issue and have it addressed is to raise it up through your chain of command. Thanks for asking the question it provided me an opportunity to update the reference change to ATP 6-22.1 “The Counseling Process” which just came out last week.

        Hope this helps
        TOP

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