Can they toss me from Warrior Leader Course (WLC)? | AskTOP.net - Leader Development for Army Professionals

Can they toss me from Warrior Leader Course (WLC)?

I am in WLC. I made a stupid comment and got a verbal counseling. Several days later, I said something else that was stupid and got a formal counseling for it. Now they want to toss me from the course. The rule is: 2 documented negative counselings are grounds for removal. Is this legal and what should I do?

Yep, it’s legal and in my humble opinion it is fair. The Army is in the process of drawing down personnel strength and they are trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. In your description of events, the verbal counseling and the formal counseling constitute two events. If the counselor referred to your verbal counseling session in his formal counseling he met the bar by documenting 2 events. It also appears the leader was doing his best to get your attention at the lowest possible level of correction by providing a verbal counseling. If the leaders of WLC are serious, they can remove you from the course.

posted on 11/14/2011 under Q&A
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Mark is a Retired Command Sergeant Major with 26 years of military leadership experience. He held 3 military occupational specialties (Field Artillery, Nuclear Weapons Tech, and Ammunition Ordnance). Mark is one of the leading military authors in the fields of leadership, counseling, and training.

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    Comments

  • Mkt

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    Does WLC fall under TRADOC or is that only for Basic training and AIT schooling?

    If this soldier returned from WLC to his unit and they decided to give him an article 15 for violation of Article 91 insubordinate conduct. Does an article 15 pertaining to UCMJ violation have to be charged/filed by the unit he was under, such as WLC since it was with them that the offense happened? Can his unit pursue with charges even if WLC did not?

    • Mark Gerecht

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      Usually Commandants of NCO Academies have UCMJ authority. It is rarely used. Typically an individual is returned to their home station. Now you bring up a good point does the parent unit have jurisdiction in such a matter? Keep in mind I am not a legal expert but my gut reaction would be “Yes they have authority”. I would encourage you to contact the local JAG and ask the question. If the unit cannot leaglly take this action I doubt the JAG will recommend the chain of command proceed. But it is a question you should specifically ask the defense attorney if the Article 15 is recommended.

    • SGT NICK

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      Acting up at a NCOES school has severe consequences, not only upon yourself but your unit chain of command as well. Did the soldier get removed from the NCOES school by the commandant? If the soldier was removed from the course this is the requirement:

      Every Soldier that is dismissed from a WLC Academy will be provided a packet containing the following items:
      (a) Dismissal counseling from SGL/Chief of WLC.
      (b) Recommendation for elimination by Commandant.
      (c) All documents signed by the Soldier.
      (d) Soldier’s appeal (if applicable).
      (e) Memorandum forwarding the packet to JAG to include a copy of the orders appointing the appeals board (if applicable).
      (f) Memorandum returning the packet from JAG to the Commandant.
      (g) Memorandum notifying the Soldier they are being eliminated from the NCO Academy.
      (h) Counseling forms pertaining to their dismissal action.
      (i) DA Form 1059 and referred report memorandum (if applicable).
      (2) A copy of the elimination memorandum will be forwarded to the first general officer in the student’s Chain of Command, with a copy furnished to the Soldier’s Commander. Student folders will be filed in the NCO Academy’s administrative area once the Soldier signs out of the academy.

      From here the General puts the hammer down on the Brigade who sent the soldier, and then brigade will slam the battalion leadership, then to your company. By then your unit is looking for any way to fry you as much as possible. From here you are DA Bar and cannot re-enlist since your 1059 stated a failure of course.

      If for some reason none of this happened and you received a satisfactory course completion DA form 1059 then I would definitely go to talk to JAG about the incident.

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